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| 'Remove full veils' urges Straw | Rate Topic |
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| Posted: Mon Oct 9th, 2006 09:54 pm |
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1st Post |
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Aurora BANNED MY ARSE! 
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Cabinet Minister Jack Straw has said he would prefer Muslim women not to wear veils which cover the face. The Commons leader said he did not want to be "prescriptive" but he believed that covering people's faces could make community relations more difficult. Mr Straw has said he asks Muslim women at his Blackburn constituency surgeries if they would mind removing veils. Some Muslim women called his remarks insulting, but other Muslims said they understood his concerns. Mr Straw has dismissed suggestions that his remarks are designed to raise his profile ahead of Labour's deputy leadership election. He has yet to confirm whether he will join the race to succeed John Prescott but is widely expected to do so. Meeting strangers Mr Straw is Labour MP for Blackburn, where between 25% and 30% of residents are Muslim. He sparked controversy when he told his local paper he asked female constituents visiting his surgery if they would uncover their faces. He said he made sure he had a female colleague in the room when asking someone to show their mouth and nose - and his constituents had so far always agreed to do so. Asked on BBC Radio 4's Today programme if he would rather the veils be discarded completely, Mr Straw replied: "Yes. It needs to be made clear I am not talking about being prescriptive but with all the caveats, yes, I would rather." Mr Straw explained the impact he thought veils could have in a society where watching facial expressions was important for contact between different people. "Communities are bound together partly by informal chance relations between strangers - people being able to acknowledge each other in the street or being able pass the time of day," he said.  "That's made more difficult if people are wearing a veil. That's just a fact of life. "I understand the concerns but I hope, however, there can be a mature debate about this. "I come to this out of a profound commitment to equal rights for Muslim communities and an equal concern about adverse development about parallel communities." Mr Straw stressed it was a choice for women and he was making a request and not a demand. "What I've been struck by when I've been talking to some of the ladies concerned is that they had not, I think, been fully aware of the potential in terms of community relations," he said. _________________________________________
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| Posted: Mon Oct 9th, 2006 09:57 pm |
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2nd Post |
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Yoshi BANNED 
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I wouldn't say he was right but he has a fair point. Unfortunately I feel a lot of what he said has been taken out of context - read within the rest of his piece it doesn't come across as sensationalist as it is being reported in some parts of the press. No surprise there really.
____________________   "Waste of frigging time you frigging time waster you." Aurora declaring her love for me. |
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| Posted: Mon Oct 9th, 2006 10:20 pm |
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3rd Post |
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Aurora BANNED MY ARSE!
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Difficult one this because I believe that in this day and age people are shit scared of criticising Muslims when I believe that in this instance, Jack Straw was justified with his comments. I have an Iranian friend, her husband moved her to this country to escape the injustices that were imposed on women inside of Iran. She dresses in Western style whereby, in Iran she would have been forced to have adhered to the Muslim code of dress. I hate to see women fully veiled, I find it threatening - as I'm sure many feel threatened by boys wearing hooded jumpers. I hate the fact that, we as westerners are having to adhere and accept the Muslim way of life whereby, if boot were on other foot and we were to live in a Muslim country, our way of like would not be accepted. I just wonder why they come here and then try to change our ways, I have Muslim friends who've adapted to our way of life without expecting us to change but I respect their religion and they respect my non religious ways. Live and let live but then when in England, living under constant threat of terrorism, respect the fact that many British people are sick to death of Muslims trying to dictate how we should live when we've just made peace with the IRA ffs. So, I'll not vote cos I think I've made me point here :S
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| Posted: Mon Oct 9th, 2006 10:30 pm |
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4th Post |
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Aurora BANNED MY ARSE!
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I suppose what I'm saying, in a roundabout way is that my Iranian friend escaped the injustices within her country, many other muslim women escape yet are still living in fear because they obviously don't feel the freedom that they should when living in a diplomatic society/free world.
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| Posted: Mon Oct 9th, 2006 10:44 pm |
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5th Post |
fat spaniel
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If you were to go and live in a strongly Muslim country you would have to abide by their cultural rules and regulations, ie women would not be allowed to dress in 'hot pants' and a 'strappy top' We would be expected to respect their culture,if Muslims want to live in this country and enjoy the benefits that brings then they should damn well respect ours !!
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| Posted: Mon Oct 9th, 2006 11:44 pm |
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6th Post |
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Adam Male 
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They've had this culture in place for hundreds if not thousands of years. If they were able to communicate with eachother sucessfully for that length of time, why should us narrow-minded Brits be any different? Its just another case of accepting that people are different. If people choose to wear veils (for whatever reason) then why the hell shouldnt they be allowed to? Because Brits don't and therefore we're right??
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| Posted: Mon Oct 9th, 2006 11:50 pm |
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7th Post |
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Adam Male
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fat spaniel wrote: if Muslims want to live in this country and enjoy the benefits that brings then they should damn well respect ours !! Lets all be the same YEAH!  Seriously, if i moved to a muslim country I wouldnt expect to have to follow 'social norms'. I'd stay Roman Catholic and that'd be it. Why should muslims feel any different? Because we're Brittish and therefore have the upper hand?
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| Posted: Tue Oct 10th, 2006 10:40 am |
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8th Post |
scottym
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I don't necessarily think that Muslims living in this country should adapt completely to our way of life, that's what's so great about this country at times is the amazing variety of people that you can meet from different cultures, and if anyone, be they Muslim or whatever religion wants to wear a veil, then it's their right to do so. In the same way, I think Jack Straw is spot on, if he wants to have a face-to-face conversation, to ask a lady to remove her veil so he can actually look at her - it's common courtesy as far as I'm concerned and there's absolutely nothing offensive about such a request. That being said, this whole "adapt parts of Britain to our way of life" Shariah law is ridiculous. That's what annoys me. I've no problem whatsoever with anybody law-abiding wanting to live here, but to come here and demand our laws and things are changed for their benefit? On yer bike, sunshine.
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| Posted: Tue Oct 10th, 2006 07:20 pm |
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9th Post |
fat spaniel
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Adam wrote: Lets all be the same YEAH! It's not about all being the same, it's about respecting each others culture. I think you will find that Great Britain as a whole has a far better tolerance to different religions and cultures than any other. In many countries you are still likely to get shot for being a different religion.
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| Posted: Tue Oct 10th, 2006 07:31 pm |
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10th Post |
fat spaniel
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Someone send me this a while ago Subject: THREE CHEERS FOR AUSTRALIA I wish the leaders of our country would take a stand like Australia Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia , as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks. A day after a group of mainstream Muslim leaders pledged loyalty to Australia at a special meeting with Prime Minister John Howard, he and his ministers made it clear that extremists would face a crackdown. Treasurer Peter Costello, seen as heir apparent to Howard, hinted that some radical clerics could be asked to leave the country if they did not accept that Australia was a secular state and its laws were made by parliament. "If those are not your values, if you want a country which has Sharia law or a theocratic state, then Australia is not for you," he said on national television. "I'd be saying to clerics who are teaching that there are two laws governing people in Australia, one the Australian law and another the Islamic law, that is false. If you can't agree with parliamentary law, independent courts, democracy, and would prefer Sharia law and have the opportunity to go to another country, which practices it, perhaps, then, that's a better option," Costello said. Asked whether he meant radical clerics would be forced to leave, he said those with dual citizenship could possibly be asked to move to the other country. Education Minister Brendan Nelson later told reporters that Muslims who did not want to accept local values should "clear off". "Basically, people who don't want to be Australians, and they don't want to live by Australian values and understand them, well then they can basically clear off," he said. Separately, Howard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques. Britain ..... ARE YOU LISTENING? Quote: IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians. However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the "politically correct" crowd began complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others. I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to Australia . However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand. This idea of Australia being a multicultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Australians, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle. This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom. We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, Learn the language! Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push but a fact because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, Because God is part of our culture. We will accept your beliefs and will not question why, all we ask is that you accept ours and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us. If the Southern Cross offends you, or you don't like " A Fair Go", then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet. We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things where you came from. By all means keep your culture but do not force it on others. This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, "THE RIGHT TO LEAVE". If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted. Pretty easy really, when you think about it. I figure if we all keep passing this to our friends (and enemies) it will also, sooner or later get back to the complainers. Let's all try, please. PLEASE PASS THIS ON TO EVERYONE, PERHAPS WE CAN CREATE A GROUND SWELL AND SEND OUR UK POLITICIANS THE MESSAGE THAT THE VAST MAJORITY OF US BELIEVE AS THE AUSSIES DO......... Goes to show what some other countries think on the matter
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| Posted: Wed Oct 18th, 2006 07:56 pm |
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11th Post |
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Aurora BANNED MY ARSE!
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Adam wrote:Why should muslims feel any different? Because we're Brittish and therefore have the upper hand?
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| Radio Nites Forum > Magazine > Round the horn > Polls > 'Remove full veils' urges Straw | Top |
which makes it sexist and oppressive.